Just Some Thoughts

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Just Some Thoughts

This page is dedicated to "Just Some Thoughts".

Over the decades there has been much written about the mytical "all around cartridge". For most of us, the all around cartridge does not exist.

That is if a hunter wants to shoot prairie dogs, wood chucks, deer, elk, or grizzly bear with just one rifle.

A multi-purpose rifle does exist for many hunters. It is a rifle usually used for varmints and deer. Calibers that are considered all around or as some prefer, multi-purpose usually range from .243 to .270. There are many hunters that use the .222, .223, and the .22-250 with great success.

Now, take a step out of the box and think "multi-purpose rifle". Deer, wild hogs, moose, bear as well as other large critters. Considering deer are the most pursued game, also consider most game is shot under 200 yards (actually under 100 yards) and seldom in the open. It is usually in some sort of brush. At this point a number of calibers can be considered. I would like to point out one in particular. It is the .450 Marlin in a bolt action rifle and as usual I lean towards the Mauser, but there is no reason to exclude other bolt actions.

You may ask why a .450 Marlin? Well, I realize that this may very well not be suited for everyone, but I do think it is worthy of at least consideration. Let's look at it's merits.

The .450 Marlin is standard factory loaded ammunition, with componets readily available for handloading. It has a belted case which, I believe, was designed by Holland & Holland. It is also my understanding that the belted case was specifically designed because it would feed in a bolt action rifle. The normal rimmed cases built for Holland & Holland double rifles at that time had a difficult time feeding from bolt action rifles. The rimmed case could be used in the bolt action rifle and the double rifle. Anyway, the .450 can feed very nicely in a bolt action.

What makes this cartridge versatile is hand loading. The case volumn is almost exactly the same as the .45-70. Using loading data that would be suited for a Springfield Trapdoor, one could shoot a .300 grain bullet around 1300 to 1400 FPS. The recoil similar to a .410 Ga. shotgun.

In a good bolt action rifle, one could (using all the usual caution) carefully approach some rather impressive load combinations that would be suitable for any North American game and for that matter just about any game in the World.

I would consider the .450 a short to mid range rifle that would really be an excellent choice for brush with excellent knock down power that would leave one heck of a blood trail (if needed).

A hunter with a .243 or a .25-06 for one gun and a .450 Marlin for his second gun would have two calibers for deer size animals and could cover most hunting situations he could encounter in his lifetime. But, who wants to own just two rifles?

Although it has limitations of range and it may not be the prime choice for a woodchuck, in it's own right it has good practical versatility. The .450 Marlin could be nice addition to anyone's gun cabinet........ Just a thought.

Our First Wildcat Cartrridge Story is on the .250 Curry

The .250 Curry was developed by George W. Curry in the 1950's when wildcat cartridges were in their heyday. The way he made them was by necking down a .270 Winchester or .30-06 case to .25 caliber, then with a light charge of fast burning powder, a filler, then topped with some paraffin, the case could be fire formed in the chamber.

I was given the tooling for the .250 Curry by George Curry himself some years ago. Recently an old friend of Georges realized that I had the reamer and gauges. A chat with him over the internet encouraged me to build a .250 Curry (I had been planning on it for some years). Thanks, Bill Wynne, San Angelo, TX.

So, I have started.

I plan to hunt with it this year. I want to reacquaint myself with this old wildcat and if time permits, I will make periodic posts on the rediscovery. If any one out in "internet land" has any experience with the .250 Curry, let us know. We would be glad to hear from you.

To be continued......

Monday, November 22nd

Well I had a 25-06 barrel that was threaded for a Mauser 98 so I installed it on a Mauser 98 and ran the .250 Curry reamer in for the proper headspace.

When I put a rifle together for myself, I do not put much time in making it look good. If parts are not already blued, then too bad, because they most likely will never get blued. The stock gets 2 coats of finish and that is it. The bolt is forged and ground to fit, but not polished.

For a scope, I had a Leupold 6.5 x 20 laying around. Now that is more scope than I need for the type of hunting I usually do, but I still hear George Curry saying "you can't shoot any better than you can see."

I used standard 25-06 Winchester brass and fire formed 20 cases.

My first loads were a Winchester primer, 58 gr. of Hodgdon 4831, topped with a Speer 100 gr. 25 caliber Spitzer SP. This load shot right at 1". I do not have time to fine tune so that is what I decided to hunt with this year.

I have a lot of luck but it is mostly bad. However, given enough time and the law of averages and everntually luck is on my side.

Well to get to the point, I took the .250 on a hunt (last Monday afternoon). Out steps a deer for me to harvest (anterless). I place the cross hairs on the neck, squeeze, and my family and I once again enjoy the bounty of the land.

The .250 is very devastating and no tracking skills were required. Now it is true that just about any rifle bullet in the neck will most likely drop a deer in it's tracks, but this time it was the good ole .250 Curry.

We thought we would add a few words from Bill Wynne, San Angelo, TX. We received an e-mail from him and it really adds to the .250 Curry story.

Bill says:

LowTech, Fred & Jane

The story about the .250 Curry Magnum is a good idea. I want to read it when you finish it. I will be glad to help you any way I can. I am sure that you know more about the story than I do since you worked for several years with George. However, since I had George build my first one in the summer of 1956 when I was 16 I may be able to fill you in on some small antidotes of things that happened in those days.

George Curry and his pals that he hunted and talked guns with in those days were WWII vets. George had a .228 Ackley Magnum. He believed in velocity, bolt actions, and P. O. Ackley. With a lot of cheap military 06 brass and 4831 surplus powder in those days, He wanted to get the most you could get out of a 06 case with a .25 bullet. He did that.

Some of the pals of George in those days.

Jim Bean - Photographer

George Gann - owner of a local chain of hamburger joints call What-a-burger

John Threadwell - Rancher

Hogan - owner of an electric motor rewinding and repair business

Bill Wynne - count me in although I was only a kid. These men were who helped raise me.

Have you seen the early loading data for the .250 Curry?

All with 4831 war surplus powder. All Chronographed by George and someone else.

87 grain bullet, 64 gr. 3720fps, 65 gr. 3910fps, 66 gr. 4025fps (I shot a deer with the hotest)

100 grain bullet, 60 gr. 3441fps, 61 gr. 3490fps, 62 gr. 3550fps, 63 gr. 3615fps, 64 gr. 3660fps

65 gr. 3715fps, 66 gr. 3740fps, 67 gr. 3850fps.

117 grain bullet, 57 gr. 3260fps, 58 gr. 3330fps.

Note: Some of these loads may loosen primers and some may loosen fillings.

The 62 grain with the 100 grain bullet shot good for me as a max hunting load.

Out here in West Texas there are some long shots. This caliber was made for these. My longest deer kill was at 550 long paces off the top of a hill into a plowed field. I had several at 350 to 400 yards. Many misses.

George claimed to have shot a deer in Utah at 800 yards with a .250 Curry. I believe him because he never would lie. (It must have been a lucky shot. My 550 pace shot was too far but it was a heart shot. The 100 grain bullet went clean through and did not expand.)

I believe that you would have a great long ranged accuracy if there were more target bullets in .25 caliber. I am trying some 85 and 110 grain Fowler bullets. I will let you know how I like them later.

I know that I could answer some of your questions about this if you think of any.

I believe that I could get a photograph that Jim Bean took of the group in Utah if that would help.

Bill Wynne

*Note: To anyone reading Bill's letter to us, the powder Bill is referring to is Hodgdon 4831 (pre 1970's). That is not quite the same as present day 4831. It was just a bit slower burning. Anyone with an old Loading Manual with a referrence to Hodgdon 4831 should be aware that the maximun loads are too "hot" for present day 4831 powder. Cross referencing to a current loading manual is advised.

Another letter from Bill which gave me a chuckle and reminder of George's personality is as follows:

Fred,

Just saw your wildcat sight about George Curry. Good start.

Remember how he liked music and poetry?

One Spring Sunday morning Bill Thigpen and I were at the Gun Club when Geroge came out to sight in and test some guns. He said "What a beautiful day this is." "Isn't it a shame that all those poor sinners have to be in church and are missing this wonderful morning."

Bill Wynne

Well, we finished up the rifle and went on a hunt to Maryland. The objective was for me to kill a deer with the .250 Curry. Well, the .250 killed a deer, but it was by my son, Eric. He is 15 and this is his first buck. Notice that the deer in Maryland are slightly larger than the South.

Congrats to Eric. We hope this rifle will have many more successful hunting trips.

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